tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post7720718637801791148..comments2023-08-29T02:42:23.063-05:00Comments on ¡Bemsha SWING!: Bullshit Fields (4)Jonathanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09371893596402673898noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-30650099991020683442011-06-05T02:55:35.396-05:002011-06-05T02:55:35.396-05:00Aha. AA as next big wave after psychoanalysis, tha...Aha. AA as next big wave after psychoanalysis, that is kind of interesting for chronology building.Professor Zerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04909063513731044826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-79503565958284755302011-06-03T13:34:47.908-05:002011-06-03T13:34:47.908-05:00Professor Dijo, Thank you for sharing that insight...Professor Dijo, Thank you for sharing that insight. -- BobPhaedrushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02148859605829540331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-3373937179046789202011-06-03T13:33:53.463-05:002011-06-03T13:33:53.463-05:00AA = Alcoholics Anonymous. This, like other "...AA = Alcoholics Anonymous. This, like other "peer support therapies," has a big "talk therapy" component to it.Phaedrushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02148859605829540331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-32157924250455751542011-06-03T13:19:59.917-05:002011-06-03T13:19:59.917-05:00What is AA?
I'm glad CBT works for some but I...What is AA?<br /><br />I'm glad CBT works for some but I think one of the big problems in the therapy industry is this and other kinds of behaviorisms which (to me) seem really superficial, condescending and beside the point.<br /><br />If you're already an optimistic and positive person with good habits, and you're already rational / able to see things in perspective, then all this additional emphasis on managing yourself in the CBT style is just sort of pointless. <br /><br />I've got, or have had PTSD and just talking never worked, although reading and thinking and observing myself gave me a lot of insight. It was deeper kinds of therapeutic experiences, more akin to psychoanalysis, that shook it loose, and the right drug did in fact keep panic attacks at bay and help me really live.Professor Zerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04909063513731044826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-46551219906565201842011-06-02T22:47:37.510-05:002011-06-02T22:47:37.510-05:00You are right: psychoanalysis started talk therapy...You are right: psychoanalysis started talk therapy. Other forms of talk therapy started shortly thereafter: AA being the main one, with its own dogma, helpful or not. PTSD folk need talk therapy, for example. Drugs don't change the past.Phaedrushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02148859605829540331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-85737322071733782882011-06-02T20:48:34.914-05:002011-06-02T20:48:34.914-05:00Was there any talk therapy at all before psychoana...Was there any talk therapy at all before psychoanalysis? I thought of it as the daddy of all therapies that involve a doctor talking to a patient.Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09371893596402673898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-47562934736742796522011-06-02T20:07:44.361-05:002011-06-02T20:07:44.361-05:00I am not sure why you lump in talk therapy and psy...I am not sure why you lump in talk therapy and psychotherapy with psychoanalysis. Talk therapy and psychotherapy comprise a wide range of approaches, including cognitive behavioral therapy (which made me a happy person).Phaedrushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02148859605829540331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-18573334524166410582011-06-02T19:05:36.137-05:002011-06-02T19:05:36.137-05:00"Superficial and repetitive, and designed eit..."Superficial and repetitive, and designed either to prescribe pills or a self confirming formula, and send you on your way, or else to get you coming back and back and yet moving nowhere."<br /><br />-That is very true. This is what makes psychoanalysis so good: it doesn't do any of this.Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-6516157017062859042011-06-02T17:40:58.973-05:002011-06-02T17:40:58.973-05:00"Does anyone really think, any longer, that n..."Does anyone really think, any longer, that neuroses are caused by the repression of childhood sexual traumas?"<br /><br />I am convinced that some are.<br /><br />"As therapy, psychoanalysis is endlessly repetitive."<br /><br />This is actually my complaint about more contemporary forms of therapy. Superficial and repetitive, and designed either to prescribe pills or a self confirming formula, and send you on your way, or else to get you coming back and back and yet moving nowhere. At least Freud was an intellectual, and had an education, and was trying to do something serious.Professor Zerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04909063513731044826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-42048699231891226202011-06-02T16:48:25.220-05:002011-06-02T16:48:25.220-05:00I say "even economics", because there ar...I say "even economics", because there are a lot of economists who regularly test their hypotheses against historical data (including those from recent history). I went to school with a couple of mathematical economists, who were sharp as tacks and every bit what I would normal call a "scientist". I also have good feelings about economics, because it really is often where math and models have to be reconciled with human behavior, something that pure math/science types seldom think much about.<br /><br />On the other hand, there are lots of economists who have sold out to achieve glory and fortune, and certainly enough discredited theories out there (Laffer being near the top).<br /><br />I'm really enjoying your longer posts these days, Jonathan.Whimsyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06347696839380725468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-36314483250931763472011-06-02T16:29:28.610-05:002011-06-02T16:29:28.610-05:00What do you mean "even economics." I thi...What do you mean "even economics." I think that field gets it from every side. <br /><br />The softness of certain social science is a real problem, not a made up one. That doesn't mean there aren't also problems with science, which I hope to address also.Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09371893596402673898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-53534470652128985272011-06-02T16:27:09.586-05:002011-06-02T16:27:09.586-05:00As much as I am enjoying Jonathan's BSF list, ...As much as I am enjoying Jonathan's BSF list, and the quite excellent comments to date, the exercise *does* a bit remind me of a kind of superior attitude I've noticed over the years by colleagues of mine in science and engineering. In certain circles, most of the arts and humanities disciplines, and all of the social science disciplines are regarded as "soft", in a tone that often makes it sound like a synonym for impotent. <br /><br />In my lifetime of reading and decade-plus of poetry writing, I feel like I have overcome this particular viewpoint, but it's still prevalent in math/science circles, where even economics is thought to be on a shaky foundation.Whimsyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06347696839380725468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-20426507947806679372011-06-02T13:44:24.693-05:002011-06-02T13:44:24.693-05:00I was going to mention "falsification" a...I was going to mention "falsification" as something that "bullshit fields" can't quite deal with.<br /><br />In German, literary criticism is called "Literaturwissenschaft" (literature-science), and I've never bought the idea that's a science, in part because it's hard to falsify anything. Or in a sense, all too easy, as any generalization about "the novel" or "poetry" is subject to counter-examples that are never hard to find.Andrew Shieldshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02804655739574694901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-17638364225862906102011-06-02T10:55:12.371-05:002011-06-02T10:55:12.371-05:00"Does anyone really think, any longer, that n..."Does anyone really think, any longer, that neuroses are caused by the repression of childhood sexual traumas?"<br /><br />-Does anybody really not know this?<br /><br />"As therapy, psychoanalysis is endlessly repetitive."<br /><br />-Not in my experience. I'm not even sure what you mean by that. I only needed about 11 weeks, one session a week. That's hardly endless.<br /><br />"The kind of cures that Freud claimed to have effected don't really happen in real life, I suspect"<br /><br />-Yes, they do. How about people who survive for many years after they have been diagnosed with terminal cancer and told by doctors they have a few months at most left to live?Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.com