tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post5922135091762406736..comments2023-08-29T02:42:23.063-05:00Comments on ¡Bemsha SWING!: Are Teaching and Research Opposites?Jonathanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09371893596402673898noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-30587714104507265142011-02-02T20:58:34.551-06:002011-02-02T20:58:34.551-06:00I'll shut up after this, I promise, but I wasn...I'll shut up after this, I promise, but I wasn't asserting (in my second reply) that the FLP in particular _had_ caused collateral damage to anyone. I was just observing that the conditions for #3 in the original post to hold (viz. book is useful to _some_ and not abnormally bad for target audience) are much weaker than those for the claim in Jonathan's comment (viz. book makes a unique positive contribution to training the target audience). I'm aware that you believe the stronger condition holds; all I'm willing to infer from your (highly useful!) debunking is that the weaker condition holds, but this seems a fruitless point to argue further.<br /><br />For the record I didn't use the FLP as a freshman; I've found them an intermittently useful reference since. I've used, and profited from, Feynman's brilliant but haphazard Statistical Mechanics lecture notes.Zedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10623092831367861959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-43001562522894231732011-02-02T04:12:29.537-06:002011-02-02T04:12:29.537-06:00Jonathan, your original point stands: a brilliant ...Jonathan, your original point stands: a brilliant researcher can make a contribution to pedagogy. Richard Feynman is one example. Landau is another that comes to mind.<br /><br />Sarang, I don't know what "collateral damage to students" you could be referring to. It certainly is not in evidence at Caltech. But perhaps your statement is a personal one. I would agree that the lectures of FLP are not for everyone.Michael A. Gottliebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09135751809126029753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-1756739899774356912011-02-01T17:36:29.313-06:002011-02-01T17:36:29.313-06:00I'm grateful for the clarification; the miscon...I'm grateful for the clarification; the misconception is extremely widely held. Even granting all that Michael Gottlieb says, though, doesn't show more than that the FLP were _no worse_ than other textbooks, assessed purely as introductory series. Though maybe the original point was that when brilliant researchers think about basic issues they come up with reformulations that are subsequently useful to other researchers -- this seems likely, and is a strong argument for great minds to turn to teaching, as long as the collateral damage to students is not too great.Zedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10623092831367861959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-52543612369157063132011-02-01T08:57:15.061-06:002011-02-01T08:57:15.061-06:00Thanks for that comment. I think my original poin...Thanks for that comment. I think my original point stands, that a brilliant researcher can make a contribution to pedagogy with no contradiction.Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09371893596402673898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-86189889137754395302011-02-01T08:48:50.192-06:002011-02-01T08:48:50.192-06:00Sarang's statement, that "Feynman's l...Sarang's statement, that "Feynman's lectures ... were apparently quite disastrous for the freshmen they were originally inflicted on" reflects a popular misconception. And while it may be true _nowadays_ that "hardly anyone uses them as a textbook," I think that is equally true of most 50-year old physics textbooks (only, I might add, most of the other ones aren't being read any more, while FLP continues to be popular). Furthermore, FLP was used as a textbook, very successfully, for a decade at Caltech, before it was decided that something more up-to-date was needed. And, finally, with regard to Sarang's statement "they're really a source of clever ideas and fresh perspectives you can only evaluate once you've learned the material from a more conventional book. At least in physics, a certain kind of idiosyncrasy and cleverness that's prized in researchers really is inimical to effective teaching." This is another popular misconception. At least I can say that thousands of freshmen and sophomores at Caltech learned physics using FLP as their textbooks. To read more about popular misconceptions regarding FLP, and their origins, please see: <br /><br />http://www.feynmanlectures.info/popular_misconceptions_about_FLP .<br /><br />Michael A. Gottlieb<br />Editor, The Feynman Lectures on PhysicsMichael A. Gottliebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09135751809126029753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-15755306634616894892011-01-31T14:50:03.334-06:002011-01-31T14:50:03.334-06:00You would know, being a physicist. I like the ide...You would know, being a physicist. I like the idea of a series of introductory lectures becoming a famous book like this.Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09371893596402673898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3759353.post-66274370467440759712011-01-31T14:44:38.373-06:002011-01-31T14:44:38.373-06:00Feynman's lectures are a strange case, pedagog...Feynman's lectures are a strange case, pedagogically, because they were apparently quite disastrous for the freshmen they were originally inflicted on; nowadays hardly anyone uses them as a textbook, they're really a source of clever ideas and fresh perspectives you can only evaluate once you've learned the material from a more conventional book. At least in physics, a certain kind of idiosyncrasy and cleverness that's prized in researchers really is inimical to effective teaching.Zedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10623092831367861959noreply@blogger.com